johnk
Junior Member
Posts: 99
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Post by johnk on Feb 21, 2008 20:11:58 GMT
I thought it may be a good idea and maybe even break some ice for new faces if any of you would like to talk about the training you are doing for the FLING particularly those of you that are making the FLING there first ultra (if so great choice). For my part i am no expert but i know what works for me. However my guess is that there are many quality ultra runners that lurk on these forums several of which i feel sure would offer advice if they were asked so give it a try folks .
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Post by fatherjack on Feb 21, 2008 23:17:24 GMT
I'm all for hearing what others are doing in preparation, as an ultra-virgin used to 40 mile weeks I'm not sure how much is too much or what's not enough. Can't imagine doing more than marathon distance in training, but I guess that if you do reasonably long runs often enough you can cope with one longer day. Did the Keswick/Buttermere race on Sunday,more for the mileage than as a race, following on from an 18m hill run the previous Sunday, also have started going out an hour before our usual club runs midweek. Feel as if I'm pushing it a bit, I feel like it's a fine line between risking an overuse injury and not doing enough. Hope to hit the fells soon for some long, slow, run/walk days.
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Post by Tim on Feb 22, 2008 8:31:17 GMT
Hi FJ. I think if you're new to ultra distance, runner further than marathon distance in training can be quite daunting.
What you have to remember though is that you're not going to be doing your long training run in the same fashion as you would for a marathon where the emphasis is on steady pace and no stopping or walking.
For ultra training, it's a good idea to schedule a break for refuelling (this is training for what you'll have to do in the race) and to accept that unless you're unusually gifted, walking parts of it will be the norm. In general, for this kind of event, you "run when you can, walk when you can't". Trying to run up every hill will burn up your glycogen stores quickly so make a point of walking up hills. As the race goes on, your definition of a "hill" will gradually become more encompassing. This is entirely normal. ;D Your planned fell run/walks sound like just the business.
If you're not doing it already, you should be working on your nutrition whilst you're running. You can't run 50 miles without refuelling and finding what works for you an important part of your training. I try to eat something every 60-90 minutes whilst on these runs. You don't need to replace all the calories you're burning though and attempting to do so will almost certainly make you feel ill but having something entering your system regularly to maintain energy levels.
Hydration is another tricky issue but the guidelines now are to base your drinking on thrist, not any preconceived ideas about "avoiding dehydration". Dehydration doesn't kill, over hydration can. You can get away with drinking too much over a marathon distance course but over this sort of distance, drinking too liberally can be dangerous.
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ellen
Junior Member
Beat Bunny
Posts: 72
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Post by ellen on Feb 22, 2008 16:29:49 GMT
I've been asked this question from a first time ultra runner:-
What is the longest training run they should do before the race. I've told them what I think but I'm interested in what other think ?
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Post by fatherjack on Feb 22, 2008 16:30:41 GMT
Appreciate the advice Tim, interesting points about hydration there, I've never been one for guzzling loads of water, I just try to have a little more than normal before a long run and little top-ups along the way. I think the food issue is basically trial & error, probably a balance between sweet & savory to keep it appetizing. Paced a mate on part of his Bob Graham Round last year (successful!) & spent a good few days training on the fells for 6 -7 hrs, not fast, plenty of walking & stops, more of the same is what's required I reckon. Do most flingers wear trail or fell shoes throughout, or can you get away with road shoes on any sections? Just thinking of the extra cushioning. Or do you accept that your feet are going to hurt & go for the better grip?
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Post by Tim on Feb 22, 2008 17:01:48 GMT
Your 6-7 hr run/walks in the fells sound just spot on FJ. You seem to have the right approach to hydration too.
When it comes to food I've gone off "technical" stuff like Powerbars & gels and have reverted to Mars Bars. Some energy bars are just too darned chewy! You use as much energy eating them as you get from them. ;D Other folk use jelly babies, jam sandwiches and all sorts of things. I'm quite partial to Muller Rice with apple in the WHW but there I have the luxury of a support crew with cold boxes. Tinned rice pudding is also quite popular. I think meat or other forms of protein are just too indigestable for ultra racing and should be avoided.
Whatever you take, I do think having something fairly regularly is important. I think you tend to switch over to more fat metabolism when doing ultra distance but you need a certain amount of sugar to "burn the fat" so to speak, a bit like a pilot light. If your blood sugar gets too low, you bonk because you can't burn your fat. (This is why I think it's a mistake to try and take anything near what you're expending - firstly, you're unlikely to be able to absorb that much and secondly, because of your fat metabolism, you only really need enough to keep the "pilot light" going)
I should add that this may all be b*llocks but it works for me. ;D
Regarding shoes, folk have done it in Walshes, trail shoes and road shoes. I dare say Kate Jenkins has run the WHW in racing flats.
For the most part, the WHW is pretty good underfoot. Of course that might mean ankle deep mud on one or two bits but when it's like that all shoes fare equally badly.
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Post by fatherjack on Feb 22, 2008 19:11:36 GMT
Tim, thanks again. Anyone else wants to chip in, that would be fine. No more questions for now, the pub beckons!
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johnk
Junior Member
Posts: 99
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Post by johnk on Feb 22, 2008 20:40:16 GMT
FJ a shoot in the dark here doe`s 3-06-08 for Keswick Borrowdale ring any bells if so you where ahead of me , short of time right now but i will be back.
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Post by fatherjack on Feb 23, 2008 14:36:21 GMT
John, you're slightly off target there, I'm from the other side of the country and a few mins faster
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Post by John M on Feb 25, 2008 20:22:58 GMT
Hi guys.
My longest run to date was a 22 miler on Saturday, followed by a 12 yesterday. Most of my long runs have been around some single track hilly roads locally, with trail on parts.
I've run a few training races on the WHW but not as many as I would have liked (plan one or two more).
I ran from Drymen to Balmaha and back in the snow in my road shoes (forgot to bring my trail ones) - it was mostly fine but trail would have been preferred. As it's my first long ultra I'm using a support crew so I'll probably change shoes depending on the terrain and weather..
Jelly babies are a firm favourite of mine as are mini-mars bars and soreen malt loaf (it is a little sticky though - Tesco's organic one is less so however).
I'm also liking the new Lucozade lemon with caffiene. It's not as sticky as other Lucozade drinks..
John
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ellen
Junior Member
Beat Bunny
Posts: 72
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Post by ellen on Feb 26, 2008 8:04:50 GMT
Hi John,
Mark Hamilton and myself are planning a training run on the 8th of March from Balmaha to Inversnaid and back 28 miles approx. Meeting at 10:00 Balmaha car park if you fancy joining us. Probably stop off in Inversnaid Hotel for a quick bowl of soup before return trip.
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johnm
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by johnm on Feb 26, 2008 20:43:11 GMT
Hi Ellen.
It's very tempting but I'm planning on Rowardennan to Derrydarroch(ish) and back on 15th-16th. I'd also like to re-run the Milngavie to Drymen section at some point as I've not done it since I walked the WHW about three years ago. I figure Derrydarroch to Tyndrum will be painful whether I'm familiar with the course or not...
Quick question actually, for those more familiar with the route: after Rowardennan, there are two sections you can choose to go (as far as I remember), one goes up and is a land-rover type track, the other is a narrow trail that follows the Loch closer. Is this correct or is my memory failing? As mentioned, I will run this section before race day..!
John
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johnm
New Member
Posts: 2
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Post by johnm on Feb 26, 2008 20:51:48 GMT
Just found the answer to my question elsewhere on the site - thanks Tim! Take the High Road, I might have guessed...
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Post by Monsignor on Mar 24, 2008 22:20:05 GMT
Bless You ALL!
Dearly beloved, gathered here today, I must confess to now running 16mile training runs with 16pound rucksack full of lenten material (communion wine and Holy Waferthinmints). This will be increased on a weekly basis until 'Fling' and continued up to 'WHW' event.
Jelly babies get substituted for communion wafers regularly. I hope the wine won't go though...
Monsignor
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Post by fatherjack on Apr 8, 2008 22:21:34 GMT
No new posts since 24th Mar?? That could mean one of two things, either nobody's done owt, or you're all too busy training to write about it. Anyway for what it's worth I'm quite happy with things, did 27 miles in the snow on Sunday, great fun apart from getting me nether regions frozen! Managed 8 miles the next day and felt good, got day off tomorrow so plan to do 12-15 miles a.m. & 7-8 miles p.m. When do others start tapering, (if at all), I fancy doing Gisborough Moors Race on Sun (12.5M) but in 2 minds as to whether a race at this stage is a good idea.
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