Limit numbers or ban support

[murdo]

Another question asking for advice.

The Montane "Fling" 's race organisation can cope with more runners and we are keen to keep intact our ethos that we never turn runners away by limiting numbers. However, whilst the race is fine, the traffic problem of support cars and people is becoming a serious problem. This brings us up against one of our other traditions of saying that we have no rules and you can run the race any way you like i.e. supported, unsupported, accompanied, or self-sufficient.

The question for the forum is - If we ban any form of support except at the start and finish, will this damage the ethos of the race to the point that we would be better limiting the number?

I know we'll gets loads of hard-core, self-reliant folk like Tim and DQ saying that with regular drop-bags, water, and sweeper runners and cars, support is unneccesary. However, I'd like to hear from anyone who feels it is vital and might be discouraged from entering if support teams are banned.

Cheers
Murdo

[Karen d]

I had support Murdo just for practice for full race but i've heard so much praise for the drop bags. My support didn't park anywhere where she thought would upset businesses on the way but weather was so good on Saturday and so many walkers out on the route i think that added to the amount of cars.

[iainr]

Is traffic an issue anywhere in the first half of the race? As a runner we are totally oblivious to any issues on the road.

I can see the idea behind banning support and it's entirely feasible to run without but having support allows the family and friends to participate in the event.

If Beinglas or Derrydarrock is the issue could they not charge access for runners support? That way they make some money and if people don't want to pay they can just use the drop back system?

I guess limiting numbers is an inevitable outcome in any successful race, especially those like the HF which has issues with travel but also narrow trails.

I was a bit worried that the race would be too busy this year, but as a runner the numbers seemed fine, the starting in rough finishing times especially seemed to work well so it wasn't too congested.

[John Millen]

Murdo please add another thank you from me to your pile!

I ran using the drop bags only and found it very well organised and it worked well for me but I can see why support is vital in the longer WHW. I even forgot to fill my water bottle at Inversnaid but the anti-cramp stream water was excellent and quite cooling when I stuck my head in the water!

Thanks again
John

[Andy Cole]

Hi Murdo,

Maybe you could allocate a specific number of "supported entries" (I guess about a hundred?) for those runners who would like to be supported, on a "first-come-first-served" basis, then the rest of us who are happy to go unsupported could promise to have no support and you wouldn't have to limit overall numbers.

Thanks from me too for a great day on Saturday - the popularity speaks for itself and it would be a shame to turn it into another event where you have to scramble to get your entry in within a few days of opening.

Andy

[Angela Rae]

Hi Everyone,

Running is very much a family thing in our family and we all go to each others races regardless of the distance. Myself and the boys were there the very first year and to think there was about 12 runners and this year it's in its hundreds is just amazing.

Having been there the first year I was very concerned that I would be able to support Ian along the way this year. Unfortunately whilst the route can support a large no of runners there is no adequate parking along the way for support or even just spectators to give a clap and a cheer, which does help many runners along.

Parking at Balmaha was fine and from what I hear Rowardennan was ok too. I think the problem at Beinglas was basically a bottleneck for a large no of runners.

The obvious solution is to limit the back up, however I would be very disappointed if this happened as myself and my two boys really enjoy coming along. I think Andy Cole's suggestion to just limit the no of entries who wish to bring backup is good, however I think it would be hard to 'police' as you can't really stop people visiting the West Highland Way.

Surely Beinglas Farm could embrace the race in the same way as the Real Food Cafe have and open a field purely for parking and charge a fee which could be redeemed against a meal in the bar? I only saw three tents pitched on the Saturday so there was definitely the space for a few hours during the day. They had folk baring the entrance surely they would be better as parking attendants?

Out of the three ultras this is my favourite, the start is handy and the drive home is not too far. I know Ian could do it without my help, he had to last year, but we all enjoy the day. We also really enjoy cheering runners on that we have got to know over the years, especially as we only see some of them at this event.

We all talk about the West Highland Way Family but this also includes the back up folk meeting up again and catching up, chatting about how their runner is more impossible than the others, it would be a real shame if this was cut back.

Sorry this has been a bit long winded and I've not really answered the question but even though I'm not a competitor I still feel a part of this race and would be gutted if I was excluded.

Regards
Angela
(wife of Ian Rae)

[Keith Hughes]

I am very much in the NO Support Crew gang, I think that the beauty of this race is that from a runners point of view you don't need support crews..(IMHO !!) Everything can go in a bag, the checkpoints are never more than 12 miles apart and when you get there, there is water and friendly people to cheer you on and get you on the way..

BUT !! Angela - I totally see your point, and would not want to deny anyone the chance / pleasure of cheering on their runner.. As I was coming up the hill behind Crianlarich, there was a lovely 2 or 3 year old wee girl who proudly announced "I am waiting for my Papa !!" - happy as can be she was and I am sure when 'Pappa' came along the road he would have been pretty chuffed !

So it's a problem - some suggestions - maybe self imposed bans on Support Crews from Checkpoints ? ie don't come into Rowaradennon, but go to Sallochy, Derrydarroch or the A82 crossing instead of Beinglas... I also like the idea of getting Beinglas / Drovers involved... 300 + runners = approx 100 support people = 100 cups of coffee and a cake = 300 quid easy..

As for the big race I hope this can work out, because as a very wise person once said "You can't do it without backup !"

[Tim]

I must admit I'm in the "no support necessary" camp but I think Angela has made a very good point.

Although I don't have a support crew I do enjoy seeing the crowds at Balmaha & Rowardennan. It all adds to the sense of occasion. If there were no support from friends & family at all I think the race would lose something.

If only there was a large car park at Beinglas! That would solve a lot of problems. If access to a field could be provided (for a fee) I'm sure that would go a long way towards calming down the locals who I think have a justifiable grievance if they're losing trade.

Perhaps there could be some sort of incentive for runners to run unsupported? Solid gold medals for them and tin ones for the supported runners? ;D

[Mike Thomson]

This is something that i had thought about yesterday as i had heard that there had been major snarl-ups at Bein Ghlas.
For some, beinghlas support is a real boost both physicaly and psychologically and also a logical relay change over. Others will feel they need not rely on support there and/or make arrangements to meet further up but will know there are usually some spare scraps or water there to bridge the gap in extremis. As you say it is about stiking a balance that is not so constricting as to discourage folk from entering but also keeping the landowners ect happy.
So, if there is to be support allowed at specific access hotspots, how do you police it ?
Obviously you cant expect the owners to do it. However would it be beyond the realms of possibility with the cooperation of owners at bein ghlas to furnish them months in advance with passes which their clients could be furnished with when making a booking. The same passes could be given to those crews (ie relays and others, dependant on owners agreement on numbers) to whom access has been granted. With a marshall controlling entry. No pass no entry, unless major problem such as runner pulling out,?

[Caroline]

Thanks Murdo and Ellen for a fantastic race, that was my first ultra and I absolutely loved it! All of the organisation and marshalling etc was fabulous as was the cameraderie etc between the runners and I was saying to people at work today that I couldn't wait for next year.

However I would have been very unsure about doing this if I had not been able to have a support crew. I felt I needed the friendly faces of people I knew well especially when I was struggling. I might feel differently next year when it will not be my first one and I will have done the Devil's as well but it was great to know there was support there when I needed it.

Neal, despite a much faster time than me still felt the support was invaluable as preparation for the WHW race.

On our way back in the car on Saturday we also came up with the idea of Beinglas Farm charging for parking and possibly using a field etc as mentioned above. It seems an obvious way to make money for them at a time of year when they still can't be that busy.

Thanks again for a great race and I hope you can find a solution that most people will be happy with for next year!

[sandyk]

Saturday was the first time that I have tried a race anything like this long. I was pretty nervous and arranged for my wife and kids to provide support. In the end I ran through and all I needed was a wave and a cheer. The drop bags system was great and they are sensibly spaced out.

On the other hand I know the family really enjoyed the day following the race, allong with the great atmosphere.

I think Tim and others are right. If it's possible for Bein Glass to benefit, from the race passing through, that must be the answer.

[sandyk]

hi guys, im sandyk's daughter and came along to watch him at the end. He looked better than i thought and it was a nice atmosphere. There did seem to be a lot of cars out at beinglas but luckly we didnt have to go and park there. It looked like the real food cafe was making fair buisness from the event and i to would feel very sad if we couldnt support sandy, i think a cheer can really help people.

[ColinL]

Support is essential for the first time running a race of this distance - you just don't know how you will cope with the distance and need the extra confidence of friendly faces if it all goes wrong. Second time round without support is fine - the bag drops were great.

Sadly there will probably have to be some form of entry limit eventually if the turnout keeps growing. I suspect logistics just become a nightmare if you tried to go with 1000 runners.

Maybe the relay should be the first thing to cut back on as this must add a lot to the support traffic.

[Tim]

Apr 27, 2009 20:29:10 GMT @ColinL said:

Maybe the relay should be the first thing to cut back on as this must add a lot to the support traffic.

I was wondering that too. The thing is, the relay is a great intro for a lot of runners to the West Highland Way and I'm willing to bet that if you cut the relay teams back, you'd also lose some potential future entrants for the full Fling and WHW race.

They do almost inescapably have a lot of support vehicles and need access to Beinglas. Perhaps it would be reasonable to at least stop the growth in relay teams (or cut them back slightly) and find ways of coping with the present numbers of teams. I just think it would be a shame to cut them back too severely.

[johnk]

Apr 27, 2009 15:03:28 GMT @Andy Cole said:

Hi Murdo,

Maybe you could allocate a specific number of "supported entries" (I guess about a hundred?) for those runners who would like to be supported, on a "first-come-first-served" basis, then the rest of us who are happy to go unsupported could promise to have no support and you wouldn't have to limit overall numbers.

the popularity speaks for itself and it would be a shame to turn it into another event where you have to scramble to get your entry in within a few days of opening.

Andy

From another runner that is more than happy to go unsupported Andy`s suggestion makes some sense but given the availability of bag drops, is support really necessary and weighed against the antagonism caused by support crews in various locations, then i believe, that if the Fling is to survive in it`s current form, then support will need to be ruled out, this would not ultimately be a bad thing as it makes for an even playing field for all competitors.

For me the highlight of any event is the Finish and if there is a good turnout of folk to recognise an achievement as i cross the line then that means a lot to me, and there is no better sight than my family, and wellwishers, waiting at the finish line to meet me, this for me is preferable to them waiting for hours for me to pass through at various places on route where they may see me for a couple of minutes at best and often not in the best of humour, the logistics etc just adds stress to all concerned.

To this end i wonder if it would be possible to organise some kind of Family event during the day at Tyndrum e.g. some kind of orienteering event, to occupy the family supporters and well wishers of the contestants, while they await the arrival of the competitor.

Sorry if i have gone on a bit and i hope some of what i have said may be of use.

However whatever route you chose to take, based on your pass record to date i am sure it will be the right one.

Good luck
JohnK