Limit numbers or ban support

[Morgan W Geddes]

hi Murdo, I ran without support (only one drop bag at Inversnaid)until 40 miles when I met my support car. I think it's easy enough to do self-sufficiently...and in a decent time as well...I used to direct a race in the USA...tussey mountainback 50 mile race which was all on forest roads and cars would drive on the same road as their runners and dust would be kicked up...and lots of congestion..it was awful...we never did ban support cars but i think we should have...it makes for a better experience for the runners and also a better relationship with the community if their limited parking areas/spaces are not crowded up!! i think you should limit support!

[Keith Hughes]

What a great debate, and indicates just how this sport is growing. Murdo - I do not envy you for next year, I do not see how with the numbers increasing that the status quo can be maintained. Something has to give. Some more ideas / thoughts
1. Support crews for first timers only and then only by exception ? A number of people have said that it was their first at this distance and they needed support. I can appreciate that, but for 2nd and 3rd timers do you need it .. Does your need mean that someone else can't have a first time run as the numbers get limited ?
2. This race and the WHW has to resolve the issues with people along the way, there has to be a win/win solution so that their businesses are not impacted and runners/supporters/families etc can all have a good day .. It is 2 weekends a year (+1 more for the Calley Challenge) ..
Some random thoughts .. I love this event as does anyone who has taken part and I want to see it grow.. So in answer to the original question, limit numbers or ban support I would say Ban support from the pressure points - the only alternative is less runners.. I respect and understand all the arguments for support, and it is a shame, but unfortunately you can't have both.. Ask the question, in 2010 if there is a limit of 350 people, and you don't get a place how would you feel..

[JohnP]

Firstly, thanks for the event, fantastic in all respects. This was my fifth ultra, so I'm definitely a newcomer to this distance.

I was surprised to see and hear about the traffic chaos. Mainly because of how clearly you guys made it in all correspondence with us, that this kind of thing would jeopardise the future of the race. Why anyone would choose to ignore these instructions is just baffling to me.

Secondly, the way you set things up made it so simple to not have a support team. Bag drops were perfect and well organised, not to mention water at CPs. It left things up to the runners to decide what sort of approach they wanted to take.

I know that people want to support their friends, family etc when doing events like this, but unfortunately, in my limited experience at least, ultra distance events don't lend themselves well to the sort of support people are used to giving at road races.

The relay race is a fantastic way to get more people in to ultra distance racing, but the flip side of that coin is that every ultra race I've run or considered entering, seems to be filling up more quickly each year, so I don't know if you necessarily need to offer relay places to keep numbers up. While encouraging people in to ultra running is fantastic, maybe this isn't the best race to do it in?

I'm amazed at how you've grown this event so quickly, while keeping the cost down and attracting great sponsors. Its to be applauded and the feedback from everyone I spoke to was positive. I guess you might make to have some tough decisions next year to secure the event's future, but given how well organised and thought-out this race already is (from start to finish, CPs, bag drops, transport back to Milngavie etc) , along with the typical sort of ultra runner who would consider doing this race, I don't see how banning support crews would be a big issue to most.

I guess it might be the only option as you've tried asking runners crews to observe some rules and they've chosen not to. Stewards at each location stopping people parking? Can't see how that would work as people would probably then just find somewhere nearby & inappropriate to park at. Asking locals to consider opening fields for parking (free or paid) might be a can of worms.

[shanksi]

Apr 30, 2009 20:22:56 GMT @JohnP said:

I was surprised to see and hear about the traffic chaos. Mainly because of how clearly you guys made it in all correspondence with us, that this kind of thing would jeopardise the future of the race. Why anyone would choose to ignore these instructions is just baffling to me.

Just to clarify, the main problem wasn't that people chose to ignore instructions. The relay teams were clearly told not to park at Bein Glas but that parking would be available at the back of the Drovers Inn. Unfortunately, the increased number of participants (and the apparent increase in non-race related customers) meant that the management at the Drovers were turning people away, and thus chaos ensued. I'm sorry but I feel that Murdo and the other organisers have to shoulder a bit of the responsibility as it would appear that the management and staff at the Drovers hadn't been expecting the extra traffic and were, understandably, a bit put out by it all. (I'll quickly add that, other than that, I think the organisation was very good and contributed to a great event)

I think it would be a shame to cut out the relay option altogether - my team had an excellent day out and will maybe be back as ultras but I don't think any of us would have been there if we'd had to face the full distance without this little stepping stone. Perhaps limiting numbers or cutting down on the support would be a sensible idea. Perhaps relay teams should be restricted to one car per team as an absolute maximum. Another option that might be worth looking into would be to run shuttle buses for support and relay teams - I'm not really sure how practical that would be, but it ought to ease congestion at the key problem areas.

As I said before, it was a very enjoyable event, and in general very well organised. I certainly hope to be back in future years.

[Roger Greenaway]

Is this issue still under discussion?

Building on an earlier proposal how about ''no cars, only buses''.
The Round Arran Road Relay buses relay runners out to their start points and collects them at their finish points. Slower relay teams can be asked to start their leg before their runner is in (times are added together at the end). A similar scheme could be used for relay runners on the Fling. As already suggested in an earlier post, buses could be offered to supporters who wish to see their runners. Plus there could be a sweeper bus for any runners unfortunate enough to retire from the race.

A well planned bus timetable would limit the number of buses needed. The buses would be paid for by relay teams, and by any spectators who want to follow the race (but with no guarantee of seeing their own runner), and also (as in 2008) by runners wanting a bus back to the start.

This could keep the entry costs much the same for those running 53 miles; it would reduce the carbon footprint of the race; it would be cheaper for supporters (compared to using their cars); it would be better for relations with businesses on the route; and it might also be a little closer to the original principles of the Fling (compared to other solutions offered).

I enjoyed my first Fling last year and it would be a shame to change the basic format of the event with its three different start times, the well-wishers on the way and the crowd at the end. Other ultras are a bit more lonely!

Roger

[robreid]

Having just read all the posts on this thread - surely a need for more clarity.

What is support?

For a lot of us, it's not mainly about food-and-drink. It's about a friendly face giving you a mental boost, and family/friends who are not ultrarunners getting to feel involved. For relay teams, it also includes getting runners to/from changeover points.

Secondly, we must separate the support question from the business of using cars
Now, clearly we can't ban support and we can't ban supporters using cars. But other races have shown that we can actively discourage the use of cars and on the positive side, provide bus-based alternatives as they do at Connemara and Arran, not to mention the Kintyre Way Relay!

One other point - we assume that all runners will arrive by car at the start, yet if numbers continue to grow, parking in central Milngavie will not be enough. There's also the question of runners and supporters meeting up at the end.
Maybe it's worth looking at the idea of a central off-route car park (e.g Loch Lomond Shores at Balloch) which would act as a hub for buses/minibuses to Milngavie/Balmaha/Roward/Beinglas and Tyndrum.

The logistics are daunting - yes - but it's also a challenge!